But the Generation has not passed away. Jesus really meant that the Generation would have two overlapping groups, one that saw 1914 and one that sees the great tribulation. Together, they make up the Generation that will not pass away. We can thank holy spirit for shedding new light on this topic.
Ultimate Reality
JoinedPosts by Ultimate Reality
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26
"Before the Generation ... of 1914 Passes Away"
by doinmypart inthat quote must be embarrassing for the wts, so i figured i'd post it.
it appeared on the inside cover of every awake magazine until a few years ago.. a few weeks ago i attended the funeral of someone born in 1916, she was 94 years old.
i don't know anyone born before or on 1914.. governing body are you ashamed?
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Mind Control on Dr. Phil
by brotherdan inusually i'm not into dr. phil at all.
but yesterday he had on dr. philip zimbardo from standford university on the show to talk about obedience to authority.
now the focus was on people doing bad and cruel things when obeying authority, but i could not help but see how many of the psychological issues also seemed to take place in jehovah's witnesses.. for example, a man was waiting outside the studio when a security gaurd walked up to the waiting man with a supposed thief.
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Ultimate Reality
Anyone interested in this topic should read the Milgram study on Obedience to Authority -- it's far more comprehensive than any of the studies currently done on this issue.
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H. Hunger Reviews R. Furuli's "Assyrian, Babylonian, and Egyptian Chronology, Volume II"
by AnnOMaly ina long-awaited review by professor h. hunger, foremost authority on babylonian astronomical cuneiform tablets, of dr. r. furuli's assyrian, babylonian, and egyptian chronology.
volume ii of assyrian, babylonian, egyptian, and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible is now available to read for anyone who is interested.
you can find it at http://goto.glocalnet.net/kf4/reviewhunger.htm.
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Ultimate Reality
Ok....
Scholar
Post 1901
That is merely your opinion as to how the seventy years should be interpreted. The fact of the mattter is that scholars do not have a common view as to the interpretation of the seventy years so your opinion simply mirrors that of Furuli. The Bible states quite clearly that the seventy years was a period of desolation-servitude and exile running from the Rise of Babylon in 609 BCE until their fall in 539 BCE.
UR
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H. Hunger Reviews R. Furuli's "Assyrian, Babylonian, and Egyptian Chronology, Volume II"
by AnnOMaly ina long-awaited review by professor h. hunger, foremost authority on babylonian astronomical cuneiform tablets, of dr. r. furuli's assyrian, babylonian, and egyptian chronology.
volume ii of assyrian, babylonian, egyptian, and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible is now available to read for anyone who is interested.
you can find it at http://goto.glocalnet.net/kf4/reviewhunger.htm.
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Ultimate Reality
Scholar wrote: "Furuli's thesis is grounded in the Bible for indeed his methodology was to compare the ancient chronologies with the Bible."
The problem is the interpretation of the Biblical 70 years. Was it a period of servitude for the nations (609 BCE to 539 BCE on the 'secular' calendar) or was it to be a 70 year period from the destruction of the Temple to the release of the Jews?
Jeremiah 25: 11 And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”’
12 “‘And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘their error, even against the land of the Chal·de´ans, and I will make it desolate wastes to time indefinite.
If we interpret the above to mean a 70 year period of servitude for all the nations, then the Biblical chronology and the secular chronology have no conflict in fixing 587/6 BCE as the date of Jerusalem's destruction. Further, according to the above, we should determine the end of the 70 year period with the fall of Babylon in 539 BCE, not a 537 BCE Jewish release.
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A difference between 2009 Annual Report and 2010 Annual Report
by Gayle inin 2009 annual meeting report, the report was given of these stats:.
u.s. 7/09 new peak in pubs and again in 8/09 land mark of 1,154,275 pubs.
making a 4% increase over last year.
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Ultimate Reality
The first place we will see official stats is the 2011 Yearbook, which should be available soon and will include Memorial numbers. But it is my understanding, from years past, that at the Annual Meeting they give the numbers for the previous service year. Looks like they need to hide something -- just like they no longer print the monthly numbers in the KM every month -- only "highlights".
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JC meeting - Someone Explain Kingdom established on Pentecost
by In inat one point in the jc recording, the "apostate" (i think his name is rick) states that the kingdom was established on pentecost, based on mark 9 where jesus says "i tell you some standing here will not taste death until they see the kingdom coming.".
the elders say this was the transfiguration.
rick states jesus didn't say it would be a vision; the transfiguration was a vision.. can someone please elaborate on this idea with scriptures?.
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Ultimate Reality
This is not without controversy. Some view this to mean that Christ was due to return within that generation (such as at 70 CE). Check the Greek Interlinear, using the word "Accordingly" to link the statement to the event may not be justified.
The statement by Jesus seems to suggest that some would be dead, but not all -- otherwise why say such a thing?
Paul also wrote at 1 Thess 4 (NIV):
13 Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage each other with these words.
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DMCA Complaint from The WatchTower for links to KS-10 'Shepherding' book
by Simon inyes, that's right, they really do not like people being able to read that book so they wanted links to it removed (it appears they have also been going after the hosts of the content itself as well).. unfortunately, i had to removed the links (which were dead anyway when i checked) and i'd ask that people don't re-post them (sorry).
i'm sure there are lots of alternative ways for those with the information to get it to those who need it.. here are the discussions on the book:.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200524/1/ks10-chapter-one-discussion.
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Ultimate Reality
Send copies to attorneys and prosecutors dealing with child abuse and human rights issues -- the organization's legal standing is the GB's #1 concern.
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DMCA Complaint from The WatchTower for links to KS-10 'Shepherding' book
by Simon inyes, that's right, they really do not like people being able to read that book so they wanted links to it removed (it appears they have also been going after the hosts of the content itself as well).. unfortunately, i had to removed the links (which were dead anyway when i checked) and i'd ask that people don't re-post them (sorry).
i'm sure there are lots of alternative ways for those with the information to get it to those who need it.. here are the discussions on the book:.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200524/1/ks10-chapter-one-discussion.
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Ultimate Reality
As usual, they attack symptoms rather than looking at themselves.
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SHOCKING Fred Franz Talk
by brotherdan ini'm sure many of you have heard this (i have the entire talk, btw), but breaking it up into these clips makes it even more shocking.. this is from the filthy harlots own mouth!.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmkdwk5svxm.
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Ultimate Reality
This is the info missing from the new DVD, from the horse's mouth.
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Talked to hubby about Jesus being the Mediator for only 144,000 he said it made total sense
by life is to short inok so my husband and i sat down and i told him that i never totally got it that we as jehovah's witnesses believe that jesus died only for the 144,000. i showed him 1 tim 2:5, john 6:40, john 20:31, gal 1:4, gal 2:20 where it clearly says he died for everyone.
he said jesus died because we need a new covenant and he gave me jeremiah 31:31 then he went to heb 8:6-9 where we need a new covenant and the ended at luke 22:28 where jesus is talking to his disciples and they were part of the 144,000 so clearly jesus was meaning the new covenant was intended for the 144,000. jesus did give is life clearly for all of us as long as we are in contact with his chosen 144,000. if we ever stop believing in the anointed we are toast.
now my husband has been in the "truth" since 1972 and was an elder for 32 years.
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Ultimate Reality
I love how at one moment the NT is written to First Century contemporaries, and then, arbitrarily, it's written 'for our day' -- like 2 Tim 3.
The Society's teaching about the mediator cannot be scripturally defended. Use the tactic they teach in Pioneer School -- make him defend his belief using the Bible beacuse his response is simply a mindless regurgitation of poorly thought-out WT 'reasoning' with unproven premises.
The Watchtower of November 15, 1979, page 26, made this comment:
“What, then, is Christ’s role in this program of salvation? Paul proceeds to say: “There is one God, and one mediator between God and men [not, all men], a man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all.”—1 Tim. 2:5, 6.
The insertion "[not, all men]" is the Society blatantly changing the meaning of the Bible.
This issue was raised in a 1989 Questions From Readers (w 8/15/89 p 30-31):
“Is Jesus the Mediator only for spirit-anointed Christians or for all mankind, since 1 Timothy 2:5, 6 speaks of him as the “mediator” who “gave himself a corresponding ransom for all”?”
The Watchtower answer to this question on the mediator centers on the following legal concept:
“The Greek word me·si′tes, used for “mediator,” means ‘one who finds himself between two bodies or parties.’ It was a ‘many-sided technical term of Hellenistic legal language.’ Professor Albrecht Oepke (Theological Dictionary of the New Testament) says that me·si′tes was “one of the most varied technical terms in the vocabulary of Hellen[istic] law. ” (w 8/15/89 p 30-31)
So, it is a "many-sided technical" term. But they never bother to define what it means! Nor do they cite the source.
To put this 'legal word' non-sense to rest, here is how should we legally define the word mediator as used by Paul:
“[Paul] calls him the mediator, the mesities. Mesities comes from mesos, which, in this case, means in the middle. A mesities is, therefore, one who stands in the middle between two people and brings them together. When Job is desperately anxious that somehow he should be able to put his case to God, he cries out hopelessly: 'There is no umpire [mesities] between us' (Job 9:33). Paul calls Moses the mesities (Galations 3;19) in that he was the one between, who brought the law from God to the people. In Athens in classical times, there was a body of men - all citizens in their sixtieth year - who could be called upon to act as mediators when there was a dispute between two citizens, and their first duty was to bring about a reconciliation. In Rome, there were arbitri. The judge settled points of law; but the arbitri settled matters of what was fair and just; and it was their duty to bring disputes to an end. Further, in legal Greek, a mesities was a sponsor, a guarantor or a surety. He put up a bail for a friend who was on trial; he guaranteed a debt or an overdraft. The mesities was someone who was willing to pay a friend's debt to make things right again.”
- William Barclay (1907-1978), Professor of Divinity and Biblical Criticism Glasgow University in Scotland, Letter to the Hebrews, p. 106.
So, according to Paul, did Jesus -- as a mesities -- only 'bail out' a small, limited number of people? Is the payment of the 'debt of sin' only applied to the 144,000?